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Before the FCC, radio was regulated by the Commerce Department ?

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class="u-textCenter">Throwaway Style Newsletter</h2> <div class="u-textCenter"> Monthly newsletter from music writer Martin Douglas dedicated to examining all aspects of the Pacific Northwest music scene. <a href="https://www.kexp.org/throwawaystyle/" class="u-color-black UnderlinedLink">Learn more</a> </div> <div id="newsletter-signup-4799597"> </div> </div> <script type="text/javascript" src="https://subscribe.gifts.washington.edu/Scripts/SubManBuilder/submanbuilder.js" id="uwSubscriptionManager"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> SUBMANBUILDER.makeIframe({ subscriptionID: [1608], //REQUIRED: Subscription ID(s) for sign up e.g. [25, 27] for sign up to multiple sub prefs fromName: "UW Email Sign Up", //RECOMMENDED: From name of the confirmation email fromEmail: "mktosubp@uw.edu", //RECOMMENDED: From email of the confirmation email showPlaceHolders: true, //OPTIONAL: Show placeholder text inside the text boxes hideLabels: false, //OPTIONAL: Hide form labels returnURL: 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src="/media/filer_public/31/ad/31ad4134-d989-4ff4-a8c2-53aef88e76e6/nation-of-language-2025-cr-ebru-yildiz.jpg" alt="" class="img-responsive OverlayImage-image"> </a> <div class="ListCard-row"> <div class="ListCard-column ListCard-column--md"> <span class="ListCard-value">Aug. 4</span> </div> <div class="ListCard-column"> <a href="/events/kexp-events/nation-of-language-lve-on-kexp-kexp_418511/" class="ListCard-title">Nation of Language LVE on KEXP (OPEN TO THE PUBLIC)</a> <a class="ListCard-subtitle" href="https://maps.google.com?q=kexp-studio-nw-rooms" target="_blank"> KEXP Studio (NW Rooms) </a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="ListCard-row"> <div class="ListCard-column ListCard-column--md"> <span class="ListCard-value">Aug. 4</span> </div> <div class="ListCard-column"> <a href="/events/kexp-events/nation-of-language-signing-at-the-sub-pop-shop/" class="ListCard-title">Nation of Language Signing at the Sub Pop Shop</a> <a class="ListCard-subtitle" href="https://maps.google.com?q=sub-pop-shop-at-kexp-472-1st-ave-n-seattle-wa-98109" target="_blank"> Sub Pop Shop at KEXP // 472 1st Ave N, Seattle, WA 98109 </a> </div> </div> <hr> <div class="ListCard-row"> <div class="ListCard-column ListCard-column--md"> <span class="ListCard-value">Aug. 4</span> </div> <div class="ListCard-column"> <a href="/events/kexp-events/cory-hanson-live-on-kexp-kexp_428377/" class="ListCard-title">Cory Hanson LIVE on KEXP (OPEN TO THE PUBLIC)</a> <a class="ListCard-subtitle" href="https://maps.google.com?q=kexp-studio-nw-rooms" target="_blank"> KEXP Studio (NW Rooms) </a> </div> </div> <hr> <div class="ListCard-row"> <div class="ListCard-column ListCard-column--md"> <span class="ListCard-value">Aug. 5</span> </div> <div class="ListCard-column"> <a href="/events/kexp-events/fishbone-live-on-kexp-kexp_428167/" class="ListCard-title">Fishbone LIVE on KEXP (OPEN TO THE PUBLIC)</a> <a class="ListCard-subtitle" href="https://maps.google.com?q=kexp-studio-nw-rooms" target="_blank"> KEXP Studio (NW Rooms) </a> </div> </div> <hr> <div class="ListCard-row"> <div class="ListCard-column ListCard-column--md"> <span class="ListCard-value">Aug. 6</span> </div> <div class="ListCard-column"> <a href="/events/kexp-events/tunde-adebimpe-live-on-kexp-kexp_424126/" class="ListCard-title">Tunde Adebimpe LIVE on KEXP (OPEN TO THE PUBLIC)</a> <a class="ListCard-subtitle" href="https://maps.google.com?q=kexp-studio-nw-rooms" target="_blank"> KEXP Studio (NW Rooms) </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> <p> </p><p style="text-align: center;"><a href="/events/kexp-events/" class="RoundedButton">More KEXP Events</a></p> </div> </section> <div class="Ad u-mb05"><div class="Ad DFP-Ad-New" data-ad-unit="LE_Run-Of-Site_728x90" data-ad-size-name="Leaderboard" style="width:728px;height:90px;"></div></div> <section class="None " > <div class="Container "> <h2 class="u-textCenter u-mb2"> Latest Podcast Episodes </h2> <div class="u-grid-row"> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col6 u-grid-md-col3 u-grid-lg-col3 u-mb2">   <div class="MediaCard " style="height: 100%"> <div class="MediaCard-imageFrame" style="height: 100%"> <a href="/podcasts/in-our-headphones/2025/7/29/american-psychedelic-rock-band-crumb-on-domenique-dumonts-deux-paradis/"> <div class="MediaCard-image" style="background-image:url(/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/d3/74/d374e844-0b36-430a-a7e3-4f84c2b14563/ioh-domenique-dumont-cr-martins-cirulis-web.jpg__800x800_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg)"></div> </a> <footer class="MediaCard-footer"> <a class="MediaCard-title" href="/podcasts/in-our-headphones/2025/7/29/american-psychedelic-rock-band-crumb-on-domenique-dumonts-deux-paradis/"> In Our Headphones </a> <h5 class="MediaCard-subtitle">Discover New Music</h5> <a href="/podcasts/in-our-headphones/2025/7/29/american-psychedelic-rock-band-crumb-on-domenique-dumonts-deux-paradis/" class="MediaCard-cta" ><svg class=CtaIcon width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M12 22C17.5228 22 22 17.5228 22 12C22 6.47715 17.5228 2 12 2C6.47715 2 2 6.47715 2 12C2 17.5228 6.47715 22 12 22Z" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"/><path d="M10.5 8L14.5 12L10.5 16" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="square"/></svg><span>Listen Now</span></a> </footer>  </div>  <p class="MediaCard-extension "> Brooklyn-based band Crumb talk about Domenique Dumont's song "Deux Paradis." </p>  </div>  </div> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col6 u-grid-md-col3 u-grid-lg-col3 u-mb2">   <div class="MediaCard " style="height: 100%"> <div class="MediaCard-imageFrame" style="height: 100%"> <a href="/podcasts/el-sonido/2025/7/28/cancioneros-yerai-cortes/"> <div class="MediaCard-image" style="background-image:url(/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/31/5e/315e836c-20b9-4211-97a6-89a7c1e6bd95/el-sonido-s2-yerai-cortes-cr-dani-pujate-web-2.jpg__800x800_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg)"></div> </a> <footer class="MediaCard-footer"> <a class="MediaCard-title" href="/podcasts/el-sonido/2025/7/28/cancioneros-yerai-cortes/"> El Sonido: Cancioneros </a> <a href="/podcasts/el-sonido/2025/7/28/cancioneros-yerai-cortes/" class="MediaCard-cta" ><svg class=CtaIcon width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M12 22C17.5228 22 22 17.5228 22 12C22 6.47715 17.5228 2 12 2C6.47715 2 2 6.47715 2 12C2 17.5228 6.47715 22 12 22Z" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"/><path d="M10.5 8L14.5 12L10.5 16" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="square"/></svg><span>Listen Now</span></a> </footer>  </div>  <p class="MediaCard-extension "> Gustavo Santaolalla, ganador de dos premios Óscar, se une a Albina Cabrera para recorrer el camino de un visionario musical. </p>  </div>  </div> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col6 u-grid-md-col3 u-grid-lg-col3 u-mb2">   <div class="MediaCard " style="height: 100%"> <div class="MediaCard-imageFrame" style="height: 100%"> <a href="/podcasts/a-deeper-listen/2025/7/29/white-lotus-actor-michael-imperioli-on-lou-reed-buddhism-and-antiquity/"> <div class="MediaCard-image" style="background-image:url(/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/95/d6/95d668d0-a916-4138-b40b-56a1c0e6e487/adl-michael-imperioli-cr-kayla-rocca-web.jpg__800x800_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg)"></div> </a> <footer class="MediaCard-footer"> <a class="MediaCard-title" href="/podcasts/a-deeper-listen/2025/7/29/white-lotus-actor-michael-imperioli-on-lou-reed-buddhism-and-antiquity/"> A Deeper Listen </a> <h5 class="MediaCard-subtitle">The Stories Behind the Songs</h5> <a href="/podcasts/a-deeper-listen/2025/7/29/white-lotus-actor-michael-imperioli-on-lou-reed-buddhism-and-antiquity/" class="MediaCard-cta" ><svg class=CtaIcon width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M12 22C17.5228 22 22 17.5228 22 12C22 6.47715 17.5228 2 12 2C6.47715 2 2 6.47715 2 12C2 17.5228 6.47715 22 12 22Z" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"/><path d="M10.5 8L14.5 12L10.5 16" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="square"/></svg><span>Listen Now</span></a> </footer>  </div>  <p class="MediaCard-extension "> Actor Michael Imperioli is also the guitarist of a three-piece indie band called Zopa. </p>  </div>  </div> </div>  <div class="u-grid-row"> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col6 u-grid-md-col3 u-grid-lg-col3 u-mb2">   <div class="MediaCard " style="height: 100%"> <div class="MediaCard-imageFrame" style="height: 100%"> <a href="/podcasts/live-on-kexp/2025/7/22/etran-de-lair/"> <div class="MediaCard-image" style="background-image:url(/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/b0/8d/b08dc04c-9cf9-4161-a7e3-c23aa1e7aa31/etran-de-lair-2025-cr-carlos-cruz-sq-crop.jpg__800x800_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg)"></div> </a> <footer class="MediaCard-footer"> <a class="MediaCard-title" href="/podcasts/live-on-kexp/2025/7/22/etran-de-lair/"> Live on KEXP </a> <h5 class="MediaCard-subtitle">Spotlighting In-Studio Sessions</h5> <a href="/podcasts/live-on-kexp/2025/7/22/etran-de-lair/" class="MediaCard-cta" ><svg class=CtaIcon width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M12 22C17.5228 22 22 17.5228 22 12C22 6.47715 17.5228 2 12 2C6.47715 2 2 6.47715 2 12C2 17.5228 6.47715 22 12 22Z" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"/><path d="M10.5 8L14.5 12L10.5 16" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="square"/></svg><span>Listen Now</span></a> </footer>  </div>  <p class="MediaCard-extension "> On the show this time, it’s the northern African desert-blues of Etran de l’Aïr. </p>  </div>  </div> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col6 u-grid-md-col3 u-grid-lg-col3 u-mb2">   <div class="MediaCard " style="height: 100%"> <div class="MediaCard-imageFrame" style="height: 100%"> <a href="/podcasts/the-runcast/2025/7/25/the-nation-of-language-sandwich-runcast/"> <div class="MediaCard-image" style="background-image:url(/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/30/69/30690ba3-7feb-4082-b73f-6cc3d6e6752b/kexp_runcast_w_john_richards_3000x3000_v01_1.png__800x800_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg)"></div> </a> <footer class="MediaCard-footer"> <a class="MediaCard-title" href="/podcasts/the-runcast/2025/7/25/the-nation-of-language-sandwich-runcast/"> The Runcast </a> <h5 class="MediaCard-subtitle">With DJ John Richards</h5> <a href="/podcasts/the-runcast/2025/7/25/the-nation-of-language-sandwich-runcast/" class="MediaCard-cta" ><svg class=CtaIcon width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M12 22C17.5228 22 22 17.5228 22 12C22 6.47715 17.5228 2 12 2C6.47715 2 2 6.47715 2 12C2 17.5228 6.47715 22 12 22Z" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"/><path d="M10.5 8L14.5 12L10.5 16" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="square"/></svg><span>Listen Now</span></a> </footer>  </div>  <p class="MediaCard-extension "> A beats-heavy listen featuring a nation of beats in the language of running. </p>  </div>  </div> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col6 u-grid-md-col3 u-grid-lg-col3 u-mb2">   <div class="MediaCard " style="height: 100%"> <div class="MediaCard-imageFrame" style="height: 100%"> <a href="/podcasts/cobain50/2025/5/2/come-as-you-are-a-live-finale/"> <div class="MediaCard-image" style="background-image:url(/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/79/98/7998d757-e8e6-4ed0-8f25-c5e2e0799f3d/cobain-50-caya-1080x1080_2.jpg__800x800_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg)"></div> </a> <footer class="MediaCard-footer"> <a class="MediaCard-title" href="/podcasts/cobain50/2025/5/2/come-as-you-are-a-live-finale/"> The Cobain 50 </a> <h5 class="MediaCard-subtitle">Kurt's 50 Favorite Albums</h5> <a href="/podcasts/cobain50/2025/5/2/come-as-you-are-a-live-finale/" class="MediaCard-cta" ><svg class=CtaIcon width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M12 22C17.5228 22 22 17.5228 22 12C22 6.47715 17.5228 2 12 2C6.47715 2 2 6.47715 2 12C2 17.5228 6.47715 22 12 22Z" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round"/><path d="M10.5 8L14.5 12L10.5 16" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="square"/></svg><span>Listen Now</span></a> </footer>  </div>  <p class="MediaCard-extension "> To celebrate the end of The Cobain 50 and El Cancionero de Kurt, our hosts recorded a live conversation reflecting on both series in the KEXP Gathering Space. </p>  </div>  </div> </div>  </div> </section> <section class="None " style="background-image:url(/media/filer_public/91/78/91783418-0c32-4863-a1f9-a40883da9525/top_903_yellow_background.jpg)!important;!important;"> <div class="Container "> <p><img align="right" src="https://www.kexp.org/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/69/0e/690eb433-59c4-4c98-958e-203ffdb90319/50_years_of_music_collage.png__500x500_q85_crop_subject_location-642%2C642_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg" width="300"></p> <h1 style="text-align: center;">Top Albums of the Last 50 Years</h1> <h3 style="text-align: center;">As Voted on by KEXP Listeners</h3> <p><span style="color: #000000;">In celebration of our 50th Anniversary, KEXP counted down the Top Album of the last 50 years, as voted on by all of you! Our fall fundraising drive may be over, but you can still support listener-powered KEXP by </span><a data-pjax-state="" href="https://kexp.org/donate/"><span style="color: #000000;">making a donation today. </span></a></p> <p style="text-align: center;"> <a href="https://www.kexp.org/countdowns/top-albums-of-the-last-50-years/" class="ArrowLink"> Check Out the List Here <svg class="ArrowLink-icon" width="12px" height="12px" viewBox="160 96 192 320" version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"> <g stroke="none" stroke-width="1" fill="none" fill-rule="evenodd" transform="translate(160.000000, 96.000000)"> <polygon fill="#000000" points="0 19.4 20.7 0 192 160 20.7 320 0 300.7 150.5 160"></polygon> </g> </svg> </a> </p> <p> </p> </div> </section> <div class="Ad u-mb05"><div class="Ad DFP-Ad-New" data-ad-unit="LE_Run-Of-Site_728x90" data-ad-size-name="Leaderboard" style="width:728px;height:90px;"></div></div> <h2 class="u-textCenter None"> </h2> <section class="None " > <div class="Container "> <h2 class="u-textCenter u-mb2"> Throwaway Style </h2> <p><a data-pjax-state="" href="https://www.kexp.org/read/?category=throwaway-style">Throwaway Style</a> is a monthly column dedicated to examining all aspects of the Northwest music scene. Whether it’s a new artist making waves, headlines affecting local talent, or reflecting on some of the music that’s been a foundation in our region; this space celebrates everything happening in the Northwest region. Check out some past columns below, and stay tuned for new ones published on the first Thursday of every new month on KEXP.org</p> <div class="u-grid-row"> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-md-col9 u-md-pr3"> <div class="u-grid-row u-mb2"> <div class="u-grid-col MobileMediaItem"> <div class="u-grid-row u-mb1"> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col4 u-grid-md-col6"> <div class="SquareImage"> <a href="/read/2025/7/8/throwaway-style-shaina-shepherd-2025-feature/"><img class="SquareImage-image" src="/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/c9/e7/c9e7cf33-a270-4660-9482-8929a7234e88/shaina_shepherd_1_by_martin_douglas.jpg__600x600_q85_crop_subject_location-533%2C711_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg" alt=""></a> </div>  </div>  <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col8 u-grid-md-col6"> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=throwaway-style"> Throwaway Style </a> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=features"> Features </a> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=local-music"> Local Music </a> <h3><a class="u-h3" href="/read/2025/7/8/throwaway-style-shaina-shepherd-2025-feature/">Throwaway Style: Shaina Shepherd and the Devil's Music</a></h3> <p>Martin Douglas sits down with the tenured Seattle vocalist for a life-spanning conversation, speaking on growing up in the church, her famous one-night performance as the singer of Soundgarden, and much more.</p> <hr> <a href="/read/2025/7/8/throwaway-style-shaina-shepherd-2025-feature/" class="ArrowLink"> Read More <svg class="ArrowLink-icon" width="12px" height="12px" viewBox="160 96 192 320" version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"> <g stroke="none" stroke-width="1" fill="none" fill-rule="evenodd" transform="translate(160.000000, 96.000000)"> <polygon fill="#000000" points="0 19.4 20.7 0 192 160 20.7 320 0 300.7 150.5 160"></polygon> </g> </svg> </a> </div>  </div> </div> <div class="u-grid-col MobileMediaItem"> <div class="u-grid-row u-mb1"> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col4 u-grid-md-col6"> <div class="SquareImage"> <a href="/read/2025/5/30/throwaway-style-the-many-lives-of-fan-club/"><img class="SquareImage-image" src="/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/12/da/12da4256-10aa-4d8c-b890-2f006a5afac6/fan_club_ts_header.jpg__600x600_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg" alt=""></a> </div>  </div>  <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col8 u-grid-md-col6"> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=throwaway-style"> Throwaway Style </a> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=features"> Features </a> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=local-music"> Local Music </a> <h3><a class="u-h3" href="/read/2025/5/30/throwaway-style-the-many-lives-of-fan-club/">Throwaway Style: The Many Lives of Fan Club</a></h3> <p>Martin Douglas speaks to the band formerly known as Lysol about participating in Seattle's DIY and punk scenes for over a decade, cease-and-desist orders, and much more.</p> <hr> <a href="/read/2025/5/30/throwaway-style-the-many-lives-of-fan-club/" class="ArrowLink"> Read More <svg class="ArrowLink-icon" width="12px" height="12px" viewBox="160 96 192 320" version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"> <g stroke="none" stroke-width="1" fill="none" fill-rule="evenodd" transform="translate(160.000000, 96.000000)"> <polygon fill="#000000" points="0 19.4 20.7 0 192 160 20.7 320 0 300.7 150.5 160"></polygon> </g> </svg> </a> </div>  </div> </div> <div class="u-grid-col MobileMediaItem"> <div class="u-grid-row u-mb1"> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col4 u-grid-md-col6"> <div class="SquareImage"> <a href="/read/2025/5/2/throwaway-style-requiem-for-a-fake-punk-3-the-nirvana-years/"><img class="SquareImage-image" src="/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/8e/f4/8ef4e57b-63ed-49b0-935d-276487f07e8b/nirvana_ts_header.jpg__600x600_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg" alt=""></a> </div>  </div>  <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-sm-col8 u-grid-md-col6"> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=throwaway-style"> Throwaway Style </a> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=features"> Features </a> <a class="RoundedButton RoundedButton--small" href="/read/?category=local-music"> Local Music </a> <h3><a class="u-h3" href="/read/2025/5/2/throwaway-style-requiem-for-a-fake-punk-3-the-nirvana-years/">Throwaway Style: Requiem for a Fake Punk 3 (The Nirvana Years)</a></h3> <p>As a coda of sorts for his time co-hosting The Cobain 50, Martin Douglas resurrects his "Requiem for a Fake Punk" series to pay tribute to the band that steered the direction of his love for music.</p> <hr> <a href="/read/2025/5/2/throwaway-style-requiem-for-a-fake-punk-3-the-nirvana-years/" class="ArrowLink"> Read More <svg class="ArrowLink-icon" width="12px" height="12px" viewBox="160 96 192 320" version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"> <g stroke="none" stroke-width="1" fill="none" fill-rule="evenodd" transform="translate(160.000000, 96.000000)"> <polygon fill="#000000" points="0 19.4 20.7 0 192 160 20.7 320 0 300.7 150.5 160"></polygon> </g> </svg> </a> </div>  </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="u-grid-col u-grid-md-col3"> <div class="u-mobileOnly"> <div class="Ad u-mb05"><div class="Ad DFP-Ad-New u-mb1" data-ad-unit="WS_Run-Of-Site_160x600" data-ad-size-name="Skyscraper" style="width:160px;height:600px;"></div></div> <div class="container u-pb1"> <figure class="u-blockCenter "><a href="http://www.washington.edu" class="filer_image_link" ><img class="u-blockCenter" alt="KEXP and the University of Washington" 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