Remember Obama’s advisors are chess players. Just like Glenn Beck lures Media Matters into looking foolish, when the White House appears to make a huge mistake, consider it might be a trap.
501(c)(3) is the designation of a non-profit tax exempt organization. That means two important things – money you give them is not “profit” to be taxed, and contributions to a group are tax deductible.
Donations to political campaigns are not deductible. That means a very firm line must be enforced that these groups not just be passthru shells to allow people to deduct political contributions as charity donations.
It’s entirely appropriate then for the IRS to make sure a “tea party” group know they can’t endorse candidates and give them money. So at the root, what the IRS was doing is not wrong. It’s only wrong if they are ignoring groups that have names like Progressive, minority, multicultural, gay for equal scrutiny.
If you don’t want the IRS in your hair, don’t tell people their contributions are a tax write off.
While people are now chasing the IRS thing, they’re not paying attention to Syria, Benghazi and the e onomy.
At first, I was thinking of this IRS thing:
http://ftp.dailypaul.com//285542/hits-keep-coming-irs-faces-lawsuit-after-stealing-60-million-medical-records?top=1
It’s an allegation from a lawyer who filed a class action lawsuit because the statute of limitations was running out – the “victim” of the IRS is a “John Doe” unnamed company.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/03/14/55707.htm
The site is an Internet only “news” site – the story provides no case number, and the IRS agents are also unnamed John Does
The only interesting wrinkle to me is “who owns your medical records” and if the Government reads them without a warrant when they are not in your possession, is that a violation of your 4th amendment rights?
Of course, when the government pays the bills, it’s there records anyhow.
Here is the actual court document
http://docs.ismgcorp.com/files/external/IRS_medical_record_case_3_15_13.pdf
The attorney specializes in defending individuals against criminal charges by the IRS. The document is pretty poorly written for a lawyer – it goes back and forty between HIPAA and HIPPA.
https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/
Case number is 2013-00038750
Case was filed on march 13th 2013 – first meeting with anyone to discuss the case is in August
If you don’t own your DNA or the music you bought, how could you own your medical records? The government is paying for some of the digitization of medical records, how could they not own them?
We are the crop, they are the farmers. It’s not like a chicken has a say in its fate
The real test to see if the IRS “problem” has been ‘fixed’ is to have a flood of new tax exempt applications from the mom ‘n pop patriot, pro-constitution types.
It won’t be fixed until the people that violated the law are in prison. As it is, we still don’t even know their names.
That’s the only solution you right wingers have – just throw more people in prison
The actual problem is 501c3 itself. It shouldn’t exist. I should have the freedom to give money to groups I associate with – without it being any of the business of the IRS, but also not a tax deduction and not the government’s fault if the group spends the money in a way I don’t approve of.
Yes, I know I’m talking gibberish
No one in government was fired over 9-11, in fact, many were promoted soon afterward.
It was reported that a IRS employee involved in targeting the 501c3 applications for extra-ordinary scrutiny was paid a $100K bonus. Wish I had the link to post here…..will keep looking for it.
bullsh**!
If Unions are allowed to TAKE dues, then endorse people.(Almost always Democrats) What’s the difference in an opposing advocacy group getting together to endorse their views? Are Unions Taxed? They damn sure are advocates! … The Court in “Citizens United” held that Corporations are people too and are entitled to all the protections that Unions have.
That’s why Barry had the gall to dress down Alito and company at his SOTU address.
You damn libs want it both ways!
And NOT 1 Liberal group was targeted! ( I think you forgot to mention that Art!)
Whoa!!!! part, or all of the problem resides in
” The Court in “Citizens United” held that Corporations are people too and are entitled to all the protections that Unions have.”
The point here is that ‘you’ as a person (an individual), do not want to be considered to be a “CORPORATION”. Perhaps that is the point of ‘Art’ writing, “Yes, I know I’m talking gibberish.” If that is not the point, then it should be, because individuals should not be considered as the same as a “CORPORATION”.
As sentient beings we are higher on the food chain than mere constructs, or corporations.
The President showed his hand if people were paying attention – he said we need to make up newer clearer rules about 501c3 non profits. Now that the Republicans were lured into being outraged, when the President proposes the NRA not be allowed to campaign against gun control, the Republicans will notice that bear trap on their ankles
Queen to Rook 8. Well played
I think you give the President too much credit. The auditing of the Taxed Enough Already groups was going on when the Speaker called them Astroturf groups…. long before the multi year decline in gun related violence and the campaign to make it look like an increasing problem.
Today, for example, when asked when the White House found out about something, the President evaded the question two ways, first, he spoke only of himself personally, and then only about a report on the matter when the question was on the matter itself and for the administration’s knowledge.
I think there is a bear trap, but it has trapped two arms of government rather than one limb . 😉
I do agree with one of your major points, why should one group get tax deductible donations and not another?
Why doesn’t the Catholic Church pay property taxes, but the Branch Davidians and Breathairians did? Why do sports stadiums not only get a pass on property taxes, but their neighboring property owners have to pay a higher tax to make out for it, driving business to eCommerce sites located in more tax friendly jurisdictions?
This is a favorite topic of Glenn Beck’s from when he worked in New Haven CT – Yale is a private university that was started as a religious school. It has a huge endowment – over time, it has been buying up large portions of New Haven, having little to do with teaching monks how to pray. It runs Yale Hospital which is part of Yale medical school. Add in parking decks, student housing, vacant land, sports stadiums – none of which pay taxes but which consume city services. They’ve cobbled together a kind of voluntary “contribution” plan to fund the city without actually calling it property tax.
http://news.yale.edu/2009/02/26/yale-increases-voluntary-payments-city-new-haven
That kind of thing is a growing trend driving up educational costs…. an hour away, UConn not only doesn’t pay taxes, but gets much of its budget from tax payers.
I was stunned shortly after arriving in CT – hearing that UConn was finishing up a$1 billion building program. Were they making the buildings out of Italian marble? This in a state that was laying off highway department workers because the state was broke…
Maybe it is sticky doll made of tar
Oh, Mr. Fox please don’t throw me into the briar patch.
Linking one scandal to another….
http://freebeacon.com/a-question-of-privilege/
When the President proposes the NRA should not be allowed to campaign against gun control, that is a signal for Congress to take up legislation to abolish and destroy ALL 501c3 non profits…..they will not do that because that would be the correct course of action. We’re f…………………..ed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get your personal protection devices while they are legal and affordable.
Just heard the IRS guy testifying that the problem is the 501c3 law and Congress needs to rewrite the law
Laws are vague, and there is no process to reconcile conflicting laws, or for regulators to verify that their regulations meet the intent of the law they are attempting to regulate.
Pornography is a great example – it is illegal, but what is it? Some 13 year olds in Pennsylvania have been arrested for manufacturing and distributing child pornography when they had texted each other cell phone photos of each other not wearing shirts. I’d be the first to counsel kids against doing that, but should they be on the sex crime register for the rest of their lives?
CC wrote, “Laws are vague…” Good point!!!
Government union workers and/or regulators will “interpret” the meaning of the laws and how they apply to “you”.
Go ahead apply for a 5013c exemption, the GovSystem will approve you (or squash you underfoot), depending on your political/religious preference.
Here is a proposed solution that you won’t hear on the MSM:
http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/abolish-irs-end-income-tax-slash-government-spending-says-lp-executive-director
I think the IRS “scandal” is a smoke screen…oh look, Squirrel!
Lois Lerner dropped the information the IRS and administration had for sometime…the timing was just before the IG report, which really wasn’t exactly scathing. So why do it?
Pay attention to Benghazi and the upcoming Amnesty vote.
Beck has been pointing this out for a long time this is a deliberate strategy to keep so many issues as possible in the air to make it impossible for the public to focus on one. Schools of fish protect from predators by creating a blur of motion that makes it impossible to focus on one individual and catch it
Saul Alinsky rule #8
I saw some talking heads on TV today saying than Benghazi. One liberal commentator explained the bickering between the State Department and the CIA by pointing out that that facility wasn’t really a consulate but rather a CIA outpost where employees were badged to the state department.
That makes a lot of sense, and Beck has been saying it was used to run weapons to Syria. I do know that it would make no sense to send government employees overseas with CIA badges. They would be followed everywhere and possibly harassed and charged with non-existing crimes. Instead, may go with State Department badges and often as diplomats (the news story last week of the one the Russians exposed).
Still, I am disappointing that Hillary didn’t explain our second amendment to foreigners, but instead chose to arrest a US citizen for making an offensive video. That, to me, is a bigger disappointment than the IRS story.
All well and good for us to bring up Ben Ghazie and the criminal acts of the Clinton Clan, but also consider Supreme Court ‘nJustice, Elena Kagan’s views. Here we have the first Supreme Court Justice who actively favors the introduction of Sharia law into the national Constitutions and legal systems of countries, such as Egypt, but also in America. We now have a liberal, pro-Sharia justice sitting on the highest court in the land.
I can not find the U-tube link of Kagan telling Morsi to NOT follow the American Constitution. It’s out there, and with a bit more diligent search could be found and viewed.
Get your personal protection devices while they are still legally available, and affordable.
Nidster: hope you can find the video and post a link…I missed that one but would really like to see it.
Here are 2 links to get started. Neither of them appear to be the original vid of the entire interview, but they contain a gist of her views. Keep searching!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNpQL6NpNCc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBlO-g3x-co
Advocating replacing the Constitution is not unconstitutional – that’s why Article V is there.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch2s23.html
In the words of Thomas Jefferson,
“On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please, during their usufruct. They are masters too of their own persons, and consequently may govern them as they please. But persons and property make the sum of the objects of government. The constitution and the laws of their predecessors extinguished then in their natural course with those who gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself, and no longer. Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right.”
Thomas Jefferson became the leader of anti-Federalist movement and fought against Alexander Hamilton trying to organize a banking system that would ultimately sell future generations into slavery to pay off their parent’s debts
The United States was founded, in part, so you could walk away from your own debts… if someone makes the mistake of loaning you too much money, it is just as much his mistake as yours (provided no ill intent), and there would be no prison for debtors – they would be allowed to declare bankruptcy and start over.
What we have is actually much worse than were we started – people are in debt for their parents and grandparent’s poor decisions rather than their own.
Today, may Caucasians have the view that they are not personally responsible for the slavery in the 1800s, especially if their ancestors arrived after that period.
Eventually, people will decide they are not responsible for the bad debts of their parents and grandparents…. and that is when wars tend to start and revolutions tend to occur.
We live in dangerous times.
Yep!!! And, when the welfare checks, Food Stamp cards no longer work, and pension checks for all those retired public union workers stop showing up in the mailbox is the day the SHTF.
For those who like the Old Testament, the law was that every seven years, all debts became invalid. So the longest loan you could get was until the 7 year cycle would be up. The prohibition against usury only applied to members of your own tribe – you were free to charge interest to outsiders.
I was driving through the backcountry yesterday afternoon, listening to The Splendid Table program, and ole Bob Brinker’s program followed it, Bob was talking about the financial woes of Detroit and other fine municipalities. So, I just did a search for any news or list of cities and states who are in deep doo-doo……here is an article listing 10 cities that could default on their municipal bonds….
http://www.thedailyeconomist.com/2012/03/cities-defaults-could-accelerate-as.html
What is the purpose of the IRS?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-20/ron-paul-irs%E2%80%99s-job-violate-our-liberties
Yeah, read that story before ZH picked it up. The commenter’s on ZH are interesting, until the trolls start posting and then it devolves into the usual drivel ….
This is really an important point between the flat tax and the fair tax
The fair tax shifting to consumption instead of income removes all the hooks needed for tracking “income”. The person collecting a sales tax would be the reporting party and there is no need to know the name of their customer.
But without a way to measure income, all of the programs targeted at people based on income would have no way to establish eligibility
That is a good point.
I do think that punishing productive people as our current system does is a bad thing. I’d rather punish people that consume more than needed- personal jets, 10 homes, etc.
Should those programs be based on whether someone is not productive, or whether one needs the help? For example, if Warren Buffet got fired by the board, should he get unemployment because he is no longer working, or should his benefit be based on his assests? (He has enough in the bank so that he will not go hungry?) These are really the questions.
I favor the fair tax system. No tracking of personal information by a government ‘gone bad’.
With regard to Art’s comment above, the Jubilee year was at the end of seven cycles in terms of sabbatical years, which was a 49 year cycle. After 49 years the 50th year was the Jubilee year.
The current system is broken. It will fail at some point in the future because it will not continue ‘as-is’. The current Federal Reserve system, adopted in 1913 for a 100 year period will end, or fail because the productive nations of the world will, at some point, stop accepting FRN at its current value. This is a mathematical reality and there is no acceptable, peaceful, way to avoid it. Let’s see what ‘brilliant’ system they install to replace it.
did someone mention War is Coming?
War is coming… did you reboot your router? 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G4vmhG3mB0
Mike Huckabee’s contribution: “But the most important IRS story came not from the hearings but from Mike Huckabee’s program on Fox News Channel. He interviewed and told the story of Catherine Engelbrecht”
Read it here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323475304578501581991103070.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion
I doubt she has all of this government interest solely because of an application for tax exempt status. Why does she have a BATF license to manufacture guns? What do we know about her groups? Is she a person who thinks the 16th amendment wasn’t properly ratified and advocates people not pay taxes? I’m not making any claim to know any facts, just encouraging people to notice they might be walking into a trap. Obama’s people are not stupid
It is always dangerous to draw conclusions after hearing only one side of dispute.
Tell that to POTUS and see what reaction you get, IRS audit?